Curse

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

the hero running was never the problem, so stop saying that hfff has the same exploit

the exploit used in the hero running came from UA where you could be rezzed from one end of the map to the other. And then consequently run through a portal (something your hero's couldn't do for you

) to zone to the next area!

So HFFF has absolutly nothing to do with the ghost running and what was being exploited about it!

All I see is so many trying to drag this or that title into discussion, where it doesn't belong really, stupid whiners!

Jeeez, stop complaining it will make your lives much easier!
A.net can't make everyone happy you know!

Sweet Mystery · Sep 12, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

How can running some heroes things be "ghost running" ? HFFF needs SF to get past mobs to the safer areas where they dont spawn things. HFFF is FFF with heroes... stop the crying out for it....

Turbobusa · Sep 12, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Let me ask you a question, if the mob spawning trick wasn't used in ghost running, why would you take a hero to run.

Sjeng · Sep 12, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

@sjeng: Neither ursan nor hfff is FUN, it's just the most fastest way to grind. If you really find grinding fun, you should check out Lineage 2, it's probably your kind of game.

1) Ursan WAS fun to me and a LOT of others. Fortunately I can do without, but some might not. I really don't care if this makes those people bad players. This is a matter of opinion, not fact.
2) HFFF being fun or not wasn't the point, it's about people trying to spoil the game for others, but w/e. I dislike grind as much as anyone, but seeing as this is the fastest way to achieve a title, let people use it, and don't take it away from them.

I hate, no LOATHE people who think they should be the ones dictating the way others should play a game. Sure, you can make suggestions, but do NOT whine for nerfs that will change the way people have to play or spoil other people's fun at playing. It's just a game for crying out loud.

Gill Halendt · Sep 12, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

1) Ursan WAS fun to me and a LOT of others. Fortunately I can do without, but some might not. I really don't care if this makes those people bad players. This is a matter of opinion, not fact.
2) HFFF being fun or not wasn't the point, it's about people trying to spoil the game for others, but w/e. I dislike grind as much as anyone, but seeing as this is the fastest way to achieve a title, let people use it, and don't take it away from them.

I hate, no LOATHE people who think they should be the ones dictating the way others should play a game. Sure, you can make suggestions, but do NOT whine for nerfs that will change the way people have to play or spoil other people's fun at playing. It's just a game for crying out loud.

You're my hero. Nice to see someone with some brains on this forum.

Fitz Rinley · Sep 12, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

As far as I can tell, NC West has no concept of reduced grind. They dont at all understand the difference between reasonable and excessive effort. Even with HFFF the amount of times one needs to do it in order to max is extreme. Even doing HFFF it takes 25,000 trips to max, which is about 420 hours. Even SS/LB on ten characters is only about 375 hours (If Bohdabi the Destructive is half way cooperative).

What would help reduce grind/HFFF is double or triple the rewards for bounties in Factions. That would at least decrease the need for the other.

Editted in:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

I hate, no LOATHE people who think they should be the ones dictating the way others should play a game. Sure, you can make suggestions, but do NOT whine for nerfs that will change the way people have to play or spoil other people's fun at playing. It's just a game for crying out loud.

I fully concur. Everything I have requested has been to make things better and more enjoyable for those who play, not for workaholic sales rep.s who ply their trade both on and off the clock, nor for those who feel their Existence will be diminished if someone else doesnt suffer everything they have.

Savio · Sep 12, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

Sure, you can make suggestions, but do NOT whine for nerfs that will change the way people have to play or spoil other people's fun at playing.

Since when are there nerfs which don't change the way others play?

Numa Pompilius · Sep 12, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

1) Ursan WAS fun to me and a LOT of others.

If you say so. It's completely unfathomable to me that anyone can find target nearest & pressing skills randomly on recharge, without ever putting brain in gear or even having to look at the screen, "fun", but I'll take your word for it.

Quote:

2) HFFF being fun or not wasn't the point

Actually that was the point. It's boring as hell, it's just the fastest way to grind.

Quote:

, it's about people trying to spoil the game for others, but w/e. I dislike grind as much as anyone, but seeing as this is the fastest way to achieve a title, let people use it, and don't take it away from them.

I don't give a shit about titles. In fact, I think titles should be removed or sold in the online shop, but if people want to grind for them be my guest. Don't bitch & moan about the grind when you yourself have chosen to grind, though.

I wanted ursan removed because it was a dumb and boring gimmick skill which was harmful to the game and only existed to to make people buy EotN.
As for HFFF, I don't care if people do it, but don't tell me it's "fun".
As for UA, it was broken and exploitable, and has now been fixed. Big deal.

Gill Halendt · Sep 12, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I wanted ursan removed because it was a dumb and boring gimmick skill which was harmful to the game and only existed to to make people buy EotN.

Here, exactly what he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

2) HFFF being fun or not wasn't the point, it's about people trying to spoil the game for others, but w/e. I dislike grind as much as anyone, but seeing as this is the fastest way to achieve a title, let people use it, and don't take it away from them.

If YOU don't like HFFF because it's boring and dumb, simply DON'T do it. Let people decide what THEY want to do tough. Ursan rage has proven that if elitist kiddos cry loud enough, they'll eventually get a candy from Anet.

You can play without doing even a single minute of HFFF, you are not forced to do it in ANY way as much as you can live with no maxed allegiance titles or without Ursan Blessing.. unless your ego is bigger than your arguments and you're just envious about those people spending hours doing "dumb" things you don't like, taking advantages out of it. Is that it?

I'm getting sick of players complaining about EVERYTHING that supposedly "spoils their game", just because they're frustrated with people doing what they dislike and consider "dumb".

EDIT - While we're at it. [SARCASM]I want HA to be removed. I don't like PvP, most of the PvP players I've meet in my whole life were complete dumbasses who couldn't even spell properly, rank discrimination is harmful for the game and I'm sick of HA cretins spamming their rank they purchased on eBay and then crying for help because they can't beat Sanctum Cay. I want monks with Obsidian Armor to be banned, since lots of them are farmers or even botters, farming and botting are harmful for the game economy and lots of those players are pushovers who're just there to waste server bandwidth showing off in Kamadan.[/SARCASM]

Gogo generalization.

enter_the_zone · Sep 12, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

No they use Shadowform to get past the first set of mobs to get off radar, then it can drop and they can go care free to the quest markers. The only thing that messes it up is if someone take the quest early that forces luxon to spawn in those locations.
Even if you perma SF your heroes, which would be alot more work, they would probably get body blocked by mobs on the way to the points. Heck the stairs and the shore runner are in range for that huge sin boss group.
Allowing heroes to spawn mobs would force you to perma sf them, and pray to not get body blocked.

Ok, so then we're back to the "Door man, 4 runners" scenario. How is that worse? In fact, a decent team like that is still about 10seconds faster than HFFF, but most people can't be bothered with it.

Nerfing HFFF at this point would be a retarded move on Anet's part, since only the newer players would really suffer. The so-called "exploiters" have made their millions already, so nerfing it wouldn't affect them at all.

Shadowmoon · Sep 12, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

A bug was discovered with UA last night during a guild run, which makes the skill very unreliable. This just show me more than the UA change was half baked and rushed just to close ghost running. It just like the Guild Hall glitch back in December, took 3 update because Anet used half baked band-aids to fix the problem. Plus they are just lazy, look at smiter's boon. Instead of at least trying to balance it, let make it totally unusable. And it not temporary til they come up with a way to balance it, they have no intention to re look at it.

And btw, When 4 sins and a door used to do the FFF, no exploit was involved, mobs spawned.
Now try this, get on a perma sin, go to the 4 locations, then return to the start, then try to get your heros to run there with the mobs there. Guess what, I've tried it, they fail horribly.
The exploit was that heroes don't spawn mobs, not UA's infinite range, but instead of fixing that mechanic, they broke the only wipe protection skill in the game.

MithranArkanere · Sep 12, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

The biggest problem I see is the same problem that Dwarven Boxing gives. It makes Survivor easy.

What? XD

Survivor has been easy way before HFFF.

The problem with HFFF is that thos that work hard clearing areas in hard mode, doing elite missions or PvP get way less points that just do almost mindless grinding.

That's the only problem with HFFF.

Grj · Sep 12, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Here's a closed topic on you QQ'ing over the faction weekend not effecting H/FFF

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225490

Oh and another

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202386

So you want H/FFF nerfed because due to "exploit" and a lack of "consistency" (Yeah sure you do, but only when it suits you) but you're more then willing to take part in such "expliot"? hypocrite

Nemesis of God · Sep 12, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Max that they could do is drop faction and gold rate from quest. But Anet is so stupid that they won't do it.

Dam, now I said...

MithranArkanere · Sep 12, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis of God

Max that they could do is drop faction and gold rate from quest. But Anet is so stupid that they won't do it.

Dam, now I said...

That won't do. If those quests are done as they are meant to be done, there is no problem.

The problem is when you make one of them again and again.

So that's why I think they should be changed so you must do them all once before being able to get the reward or even before all of them reset.

Gill Halendt · Sep 12, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So that's why I think they should be changed so you must do them all once before being able to get the reward or even before all of them reset.

Those quests are repeatable to allow people to do the Befriending the Kurzicks/Luxons quest if they don't wanna AB.

They're fine the way they are.

Destro Maniak · Sep 12, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

What can be clearly seen, the UA nerf was directed at ghost running, which a-net sees as an exploit in the game because heros don't trigger mobs to spawn. Now if A-net want to be consistant, what next needs to be nerfed is both luxon and kurzick HFFF.
These only work because of the same exploit used by ghost running, the heroes don't trigger the mobs to spawn, so they can just run care free to the quest points. Plus these are easily botable.
Now will they do it? I don't know, but yesterday they stated that abusing the fact that heroes do not spawn mobs is an exploit. But this is the most popular activity on the kurzick side to get faction, dunno if the blacklash would prevent them from closing this exploit too. Also how would this favor in there new message of trying to reduce grind.
All I do know is that in A-nets eyes, HFFF is an exploit.

YOUA RE MISTAKEN!!!
dude, make the mobs spawn if you want
it wont matter even that much
because its not anything being exploited there
heroes ALREADY HAVE SHADOW FORM

just a little reminder:
this quest is there for 2 years or so now
if anet things that its abuse, they would have nerfed it
ALREADY^^
not a single skill havent been stood same for 2 years anet changes everything but securing echovland stood same
Anet loves that quest

kratimas · Sep 12, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

If you say so. It's completely unfathomable to me that anyone can find target nearest & pressing skills randomly on recharge, without ever putting brain in gear or even having to look at the screen, "fun", but I'll take your word for it.

I find it completely unfathomable that anyone could think that any build in GW isn't anything but target nearest & pressing skills randomly on recharge.

There is no brain work in PvE at all anywhere!

Everyone that said how bad Ursan was because it was so brainless must have just been plain bad at the game because it is all brainless.

At least in PvP you have to think some because you have to predict what the other person is thinking or going to do, in PvE you only have to "out think" the AI which is always the same and always forgiving.

So, although I never used Ursan it would be very easy to see why some people would find it fun to use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I don't give a shit about titles. In fact, I think titles should be removed or sold in the online shop, but if people want to grind for them be my guest. Don't bitch & moan about the grind when you yourself have chosen to grind, though.

I do however totally agree with you on this point.

Shadowmoon · Sep 12, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

So you want H/FFF nerfed because due to "exploit" and a lack of "consistency" (Yeah sure you do, but only when it suits you) but you're more then willing to take part in such "expliot"? hypocrite

1. Got most of my Kurzick title using the FFF, no exploit involve there, it just a team build like the UW SC. Was complaining that only releif for that title grind was given to pvp activities when they showed they could make a double faciton reward weekend, which only happened once in the past year and half.

2. Only until two days ago they stated that using the heroes to not spawn mobs is a exploit, which is why ghost running and HFF is possible. I used the AFK LB farm to get max LB on my necro because it was never stated as a exploit. Until Anet states otherwize, and it has no economic effect, ie duping or the 117, it is a feature, for example, death leveling in pre.

I'm just saying that both ghost running and HFF use the same exploit, and I'd say hff has more potential and real damage to economy because, its easily bottable (auto hotkey scripts are very easy to make for it), and you get money as the reward (plus jade and amber can easily be converted into more money). If your thinking the two are different, well I'd like some of what you smoking.

Shadowhaze · Sep 12, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Since it's been around as long as it has, nothing will probably happen to it...at least let's hope not.

UA was fun, but yeah...nerfdom has come again.

And I so love how people insult each other - either thinking pvp/pve is superior to the other or whatever. -_-